Elisa Pilarski - Mord oder Tod durch Hunde

BenoitBlanc schrieb:No, because Drago was also collected.
And it would still be Curtis's DNA.

Curtis would not have had to be sampled; but then a second unknown DNA would have been found on the scalp, under a fingernail, and on the clothes (in addition to the one on the scarf, and on the coat at the collar, and on the bottom of the coat).

"If he wanted to cheat": why would Christophe Ellul necessarily have had a perfect scenario in mind when he was shocked by his discovery?

Drago was picked up the same evening, or the next day. Had it been Curtis who had gone to DW, Drago's DNA would have been found on Elisa, as any of her dogs and nothing more.

And Curtis would have been out of reach of justice. If CE had been as afraid of judgment as many believe, then he could have done so. But I think he's convinced it wasn't Curtis.

Zeralda schrieb:Hach exakt diesen Abgleich und dessen genauere Umstände würde ich echt trotzdem gern mal lesen. Aber leider geht das wohl drüber raus.

Ich bin mir gerade unsicher, ob die DNA von allen fünf Ellul/Elisa-Hunden bekannt war oder lediglich die Abdrücke. Weiss es jemand aus dem Stegreif?

I have the impression that there is a misunderstanding about how DNA testing is done.

We look for all possible DNA in the seals, not just the DNA of the dogs that were sampled.

This is why, even in the theory of "buried dogs", it doesn't change the results of the DNA tests: no DNA was found that could match the 33 dogs from the kennel whose samples were analyzed, or other dogs of their lineage.

One DNA is still unknown, but the areas where it was found (scarf, coat collar, coat bottom; coat that was torn at one sleeve) make it unlikely that this dog (only one) was involved in the tragedy.

A request for action was made to test the dog of Elisa Pilarski's uncle.

Ice, Chivas, Lady and Drago were all sampled and analyzed at the DNA laboratory.

Only the DNA from Ice and Chivas was found on some of Elisa's clothing.

Drago and Lady's DNA were not individualized either on the clothing or on Elisa.

BenoitBlanc schrieb:This is why, even in the theory of "buried dogs", it doesn't change the results of the DNA tests: no DNA was found that could match the 33 dogs from the kennel whose samples were analyzed, or other dogs of their lineage.

Ah o.k. also so oder so auch kein Hund der erwartet involvierten Hunderassen bzw Linien.

Der Exfreund mit dem Reiterhof hat doch noch einen glaube, Australian Shepherd?
Vielleicht hat sie die Pferde mal besucht, und wurde freudig vom Hund begrüßt.

BenoitBlanc schrieb:Only the DNA from Ice and Chivas was found on some of Elisa's clothing.

Drago and Lady's DNA were not individualized either on the clothing or on Elisa.

which is in a way unimaginable, right? She treats the dogs every day, feeds them and pats them.

The dogs run around on their legs, clothes etc. There are thousands of flakes of skin falling all the day. Why didn't they find anything from the other dogs? Was that a low-budget DNA investigation? Which it definitely wasn't ...

Don't forget that Elisa didn't live in Saint Pierre Aigle and she had just arrived 2 days before.

Do not forget that the dogs did not live in freedom at Christophe Ellul's house, but in a cage (which was confirmed by his lawyer Alexandre Novion).

There is a mixture of DNA fingerprints on the pants, which cannot be individualized; but the laboratory is formal, it is necessarily the DNA of the 5 dogs of the couple and the unknown dog.

BenoitBlanc schrieb:One DNA is still unknown, but the areas where it was found (scarf, coat collar, coat bottom; coat that was torn at one sleeve) make it unlikely that this dog (only one) was involved in the tragedy.

Why, the positions fit perfectly? Curtis is just a single dog too. And presumably a smaller one.

BenoitBlanc schrieb:Do not forget that the dogs did not live in freedom at Christophe Ellul's house, but in a cage (which was confirmed by his lawyer Alexandre Novion).

not the whole day. And CE also said that they were walking around freely in the living room.

Dawn schrieb:Why, the positions fit perfectly? Curtis is just a single dog too. And presumably a smaller one

Warum diese Annahme? Weshalb sollte Curtis denn kleiner sein? Und als wer?

I say "only one dog" because, according to Christophe Ellul, several dogs attacked Elisa. It is therefore not coherent.

The scarf was not torn.
The coat is torn at the sleeve: we find the DNA of Ice and Curtis. The unknown DNA is at the collar (contact with the scarf?) and at the bottom of the coat, which is not torn.
The vest: DNA from Chivas, Ice, and Curtis, no unknown DNA.

Only Curtis' DNA on the scalp, not the unknown DNA.

"Dogs loose in the house": according to Christophe Ellul. Everything is said: "according to Christophe Ellul"; this does not make it a truth.

@BenoitBlanc
Were Drago and Curtis compared for shure to exclude the little possibility of identical twins with unidentical coatcolour?

Zu Deutsch: Frage geht nach dem konkreten Vergleich bzgl. eineiige Zwillinge Curtis/Drago

Zeralda schrieb:Warum diese Annahme? Weshalb sollte Curtis denn kleiner sein? Und als wer?

Kleiner als der andere, unbekannte Hund. Mit einer leichten Tendenz zu Jagdhund und 70 cm Schulterhöhe.

@Dawn
except that the DNA is not that of a hunting dog
and that there is also Curtis's DNA on the bottom of the coat.

@Zeralda
Yes, they differentiated the genetic prints of Drago and Curtis

BenoitBlanc schrieb:@Zeralda
Yes, they differentiated the genetic prints of Drago and Curtis

Thank you very much.

Dawn schrieb:Kleiner als der andere, unbekannte Hund. Mit einer leichten Tendenz zu Jagdhund und 70 cm Schulterhöhe.

Wessen Tendenz und vernünftiger Beleg für die Tendenz?
none....
Siehe dazu auch Benoits Ausführungen.

BenoitBlanc schrieb:except that the DNA is not that of a hunting dog
and that there is also Curtis's DNA on the bottom of the coat.

Curtis dna can be anywhere, he was the dog of the two. So they did a race determination? Or was it just not the DNA of one of the 30 tested out of 62 hunting dogs?

@Zeralda
Beleg für eine Tendenz? :D Nun, tendenziell waren zu dem Zeitpunkt Jagdhunde im Wald unterwegs, daher die leichte Tendenz.

@Dawn
You wanted to show that the unknown DNA was from a dog larger than Curtis because it was on the bottom of the coat; I am showing you that there is no connection because even Curtis left his DNA on the bottom of the coat.
I am not saying that the DNA on the bottom of the coat blames Curtis for the attack...
They made a lineage determination, not a race determination.

Der Verdacht gegen die Jagdhunde der Meute ist längst wissenschaftlich hinfällig.
Das Gegengutachten wurde richterlich abgelehnt.

Also was soll das?

BenoitBlanc schrieb:You wanted to show that the unknown DNA was from a dog larger than Curtis because it was on the bottom of the coat; I am showing you that there is no connection because even Curtis left his DNA on the bottom of the coat.

No, I said that there is a slight tendency that the unknown DNA comes from a hunting dog, she was in the forest and close to the pack.
Maybe a stray, or one who has left the pack unnoticed. It could also have just been another family dog. Currently an unknown lead.

Zeralda schrieb:Der Verdacht gegen die Jagdhunde der Meute ist längst wissenschaftlich hinfällig.

Die Bestimmung der Bissbreite und Tiefe finde ich ziemlich unwissenschaftlich.
Auch die fehlende Bestimmung von Mageninhalt und Bissabdruecken der Jahdhunde ist nicht sehr ueberzeugend. Aber wenn es für dich reicht, ist ja alles ok