Oscar Pistorius, das Model, der Valentinstag und das war dann Notwehr

There are some possible charges, including premeditated murder, murder and culpable homicide. Premeditated murder requires planning plus intent to murder. In contrast, murder only requires intent to murder (no planning). Culpable homicide entails negligently killing someone (without the intent factor present).

So if a person kills intentionally it's murder; where a person negligently kills, it's culpable homicide. You can then divide murder up into premeditated or not premeditated.

As far as jail time, premeditated murder would get Pistorius a compulsory life sentence, while murder would result in a compulsory sentence of 15 years. For culpable homicide, the sentencing is discretionary, although it's not unusual to see prison time in South Africa of 5 to 10 years.

ERIC MACRAMALLA, LEGAL ANALYST

Tussinelda schrieb:Nel hat bezüglich der Hose Mist gebaut, muss man einfach akzeptieren, kann ja vorkommen

South Africa law ≠ U.S. law

The more important question: Could it be true in South Africa?

What counts as premeditation is an unsettled area of law decided on a case by case basis, said Kelly Phelps, a University of Cape Town Faculty of Law senior lecturer. Still, jurisprudence suggests it takes time.

"What is clear is that crimes of passion in the heat of the moment will not be premeditation," Phelps said. "It is true that as long as a clear thought is formed and executed, even in a few minutes, this could in theory be premeditation, but not if the killing happen on the spur of the moment out of rage."

Some types of murder that would be considered premeditated in the U.S. would not be considered premeditated in South Africa, said Bob Dekle, a retired assistant state attorney who teaches the prosecution clinic at the University of Florida Levin College of Law.

In South Africa, murder is defined as the unlawful and intentional killing of another person. There are three different forms of intent that come into play when a judge is determining the length of a sentence. (Memorize the Latin terms like we did and you’ll seem super informed about this case.)

Dolus directus, or direct intent. It was your goal to kill someone.

Dolus eventualis, or knowing the possible result of your action will kill someone and recklessly going through with it anyway. It’s akin to second-degree murder, Dekle said.

Dolus indirectus, or indirect intent. When a person’s death is a substantially certain outcome of your action, such as committing arson and knowing factory workers will die as a result.

The judge could also decide the murder was not intentional and find Pistorius guilty of culpable homicide, or an unlawful negligent killing. In that scenario, Pistorius ought to have foreseen the result of shooting through a door but did not, or he should have known Steenkamp was in the bathroom when shooting through the door, said Marius du Toit, a criminal defense attorney in South Africa who is tracking the case. The court would determine how a reasonable person in Pistorius’ situation would have acted that night and compare it to what he did.

The bigger takeaway, Dekle said, is South African law has a high standard for premeditation. "When South African law says premeditation, what they mean is a prior plan to murder," Dekle said. "That’s somewhat similar to our concept of cold, calculated and premeditated" in Florida.

Tussinelda schrieb:nee, es gab diese verschiedenen Bilder, die Hose war einmal inside out und einmal nicht, deshalb argumentierte Nel ja , sie wollte sie anziehen, um zu fliehen und dann, sie wollte sie ausziehen um zu fliehen.....das war äh etwas daneben, das Ganze.

hubertzle schrieb: Nel impliziert eine konkrete Situation: jeans quickly off, had no time.
OP: erzählt zur jeans eine VERSION/Behauptung/Annahme: sie war vor ihm da, hat Hose in der Zeit ausgezogen und ihn im Pyjama empfangen, warum die so liegt weiss er nicht. Er verschiebt also das jeansausziehen noch vor seine Ankunft!! Weit weg, verdächtig weit weg für mich.

Interested schrieb:Hätte OP nach dem 1. Schuss gestoppt, wäre es kein Premeditated Murder...er schoss aber 4 mal durch die geschlossene Tür - somit haben wir hier die vorsätzliche Tötung eines Menschen und keine Notwehrsituation, keine Verteidigungssituation, keinen Affekt und keine fahrlässige Tötung.

In other words?

"Grace has got it all wrong," du Toit, the South African criminal defense attorney, said. "The period between the forming of the intention and the carrying out of the act is crucial to the test whether premeditation was present. Our courts have said repeatedly that premeditation does not occur on the ‘spur of the moment.’"

The prosecution alleged premeditation in the Pistorius trial to get him to disclose his full version of the events leading up to Steenkamp’s death, du Toit said.

Phelps, the law lecturer from South Africa, pointed to several cases, among them State vs. Dyonase, in which the accused killer retaliated to the victim’s previous assault and ransacking of his home by ambushing him as he returned from drinking with another friend and stabbing him to death. The court weighed whether the evidence showed a preconceived design or clear motive, which would prove premeditation. The court ruled the murder was not premeditated, preventing the killer from serving a minimum life sentence. (You can read more cases and Phelps’s commentary in this document.)

Our ruling

Grace and Abrams wrangled over the definition of premeditated murder, with Grace arguing, "premeditation can be formed in the twinkling of an eye."

Location, location, location.

Legal experts told us it could in some parts of the United States, but it’s not as likely to meet South Africa’s heightened standards for premeditation. While the definition for what counts as premeditation is not finite, legal precedent shows South African courts are likely to require evidence that proves more planning than a "spur of the moment" decision.

We rate her claim Mostly False

Tussinelda schrieb:Nel hat bezüglich der Hose Mist gebaut, muss man einfach akzeptieren, kann ja vorkommen