JFK - Attentataufdeckung

@jfk-inside
Schon klar das du kein Gebäck bist, wen willst du also trollen?

McMurdo schrieb:Schon klar das du kein Gebäck bist, wen willst du also trollen?

Scherz





Nett, CE567 hat es geschafft organisches Material zu behalten - bis 1998 !
CE399 leider nicht ????
WOW

Stop ...
CE399
Plus CE567
Plus James Taque
Plus Conally
Plus 2. Kugel (früherer Beitrag)
Plus Kugel Fragmente in der Limo
Plus Kennedy
Plus Plus Plus?

Ergibt 3 Kugeln inklusive eines Fehlschusses ?

jfk-inside schrieb:Ergibt 3 Kugeln inklusive eines Fehlschusses ?

Yepp

jfk-inside schrieb:Nett, CE567 hat es geschafft organisches Material zu behalten - bis 1998 !
CE399 leider nicht ????

towel_42 schrieb:Yepp

Merkwürdig - hast du eine Antwort darauf ?

jfk-inside schrieb:Merkwürdig - hast du eine Antwort darauf ?

Eigentlich nichts Neues was jetzt die letzten sechzig Jahre nicht schon beantwortet worden wäre....
Glaubst Du denn dass man schon widerlegten Unsinn stündlich immer neu ""beantworten" muss?

towel_42 schrieb:Eigentlich nichts Neues was jetzt die letzten sechzig Jahre nicht schon beantwortet worden wäre....
Glaubst Du denn dass man schon widerlegten Unsinn stündlich immer neu ""beantworten" muss?

Nö, das musst du nicht beantworten. Es zeigt mir nur wieder das du und andere keine Lust haben sich mit den Tatsachen zu beschäftigen.
Die vorhandenen Beweise bzw. die nicht in die Ermittlung aufgenommenen Beweise und die ignorierten Beweise lassen eine alleinige Verurteilung von LHO nicht zu.
Es sei denn du kannst hier Beweise vorlegen die nicht zu widerlegen sind.
Ich sehe nichts in den letzen 60 Jahren als 100% belegbar.

@towel_42

jfk-inside schrieb:Nett, CE567 hat es geschafft organisches Material zu behalten - bis 1998 !
CE399 leider nicht ????

Nochmals - Warum ist an CE399 kein organisches Material vorhanden (trotz Treffer durch 2 Menschen)
DU hast noch keine Antwort geliefert

Nach einem regen Austausch von PM mit einem anderen User habe ich eine Frage an euch:
Es würde mich freuen wenn möglichst viele ihre Meinung verbindlich und ohne Umwege äußern würden.

1. Ich glaube der Warren Commission zu 100%.
LHO ist der allenige Attentäter
2. Es gibt Zweifel das LHO der Alleintäter war.
3. Mehrere Attentäter
4 . CIA,FBI,Mafia usw. waren beteiligt
5. keine Ahnung

jfk-inside schrieb:Eine der Fragen an @groucho.
Bisher nicht beantwortet

Du trollst.

jfk-inside schrieb:Es würde mich freuen wenn möglichst viele ihre Meinung verbindlich und ohne Umwege äußern würden.

Das ist doch auch nur Trollerei.
Wenn du hier aufmerksam mitlesen würdest (und nicht nur alle paar Monate einen launigen Auftritt hinlegen würdest), dann wüsstest du ziemlich genau, welcher User dir welche Antwort auf die Fragen gibt.

towel_42 schrieb:Eigentlich nichts Neues was jetzt die letzten sechzig Jahre nicht schon beantwortet worden wäre....

Inwiefern?

Seit den späten 1990ern zeichnet sich ab, dass zumindest ein Teil der offiziellen Version von Oswalds Abstecher nach Mexico City so nicht stimmen kann (in zeitgenössischen Dokumenten ist von jemand die Rede, der sich bei einem Telefongespräch als Oswald ausgab)
usw. usw.

towel_42 schrieb:Es gibt doch diese tolle Animation die recht plausibel belegt wie sich das Ganze abgespielt hat,

Da du diese Animation so toll findest, kannst du sicherlich die Nachfragen nach den genauen Werten beantworten

behind_eyes schrieb am 24.08.2018:Aber du wirst mir sicherlich gleich Winkelangaben inkl. Toleranz nennen. Bin gespannt !

Aniara schrieb am 29.08.2018:Und du keine Parameter, mit denen ich rechnen könnte. ;)

Aniara schrieb am 29.08.2018:Welche Parameter wurden dafür verwendet? Kannst es ja einfach mal im Bild angeben, dann sehen wir weiter.

behind_eyes schrieb am 24.08.2018:Wie viel Grad hat die blaue Linie und welche Toleranz? Bezugspunkt kannst du dir selber raussuchen.

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl3.htm

Da du die an die Animation glaubst müsstest du eigentlich auch die Darstellung der Kopfhaltung des HSCA für falsch halten:

McMurdo schrieb:Kommt hierzulande auch häufiger vor als man das sich so gemeinhin vorstellt.

towel_42 schrieb:Sei Dir nicht zu sicher.
Wikipedia: Justizirrtum_um_Horst_Arnold

Groucho schrieb:Mehr ist nicht drin.
Abgesehen davon sind wir hier nicht vor Gericht.
Und abgesehen davon sind in Amerika auch schon Leute mit weniger eindeutigen Indizien verurteilt worden.

Interessant, dass in Texas auf Druck der Anklage die Zusammensetzung der Jury geändert werden kann- "Jury Shuffle"

+ Unusual Texas Practice - The Jury Shuffle: Texas, is the only state where a "jury shuffle" is permitted. In effect, the jury shuffle procedure allows the lawyers, after getting a quick look at the sequence in which the prospective jurors are seated, to require that the sequence be reordered. Judges don't like jury shuffles. Many defense lawyers and prosecutors like having the right to force a shuffle. Art. 35.11 CCP provides that, upon the demand of the defendant or his attorney or of the prosecutor, the trial court must shuffle the names of a sufficient number of the prospective jurors from the general panel drawn or assigned to the case. The rub is that only one shuffle is allowed. See Chappell v. State, 850 S.W.3d 508 (Tex. Crim. App. 1993). The motion must be presented in a timely manner before the voir dire commences, e.g., in a non-capital case, before the prosecution begins its voir dire but not when the trial court is giving its initial instructions to the jury. See Davis v. State, 782 S.W.2d 211 (Tex. Crim. App. 1989). Failure to shuffle upon request is error, but the error can be harmless. See Ford v. State, 73 S.W.3d 923 (Tex. Crim. App 2002).

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1308-what-henry-wade-looked-for-in-jurors#17894

Der DA von New Orleans Henry Wade war nicht nur Anhänger der Rassentrennung
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t895-henry-wade-dixiecrat-segregationist#10861

und war bei seinen Prozessen nicht gerade darauf aus, eine objektive Jury zu haben. Wade schrieb einen Artikel. Hier ein Auszug:

“What to look for in a juror.”


Source http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1977/june/the-law-and-henry-wade/


A. Attitudes.

1. You are not looking for a fair juror, but rather a strong, biased and sometimes hypocritical individual who believes that Defendants are different from them in kind, rather than degree.


2. You are not looking for any member of a minority group which may subject him to oppression -they almost always empathize with the accused.


3. You are not looking for the free thinkers and flower children.

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1308-what-henry-wade-looked-for-in-jurors#17894

Oswald hätte bei Bezirksstaatsanwalt und Jury kaum Chancen auf einen fairen Prozess gehabt, ganz besonders als (scheinbarer) Linker

Hinzu kommt noch die von Rechten durchsetzte Polizei von Dallas die von vornherein voreingenommen gegen Oswald war

Eine Namensliste des KKK von 1923 beinhalte auch Mitglieder, die 1963 bei der Polizei von Dallas tätig waren

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25219-list-of-klansmen-in-dallas-police-department-1923/

There are couple of names which are relevant to the investigation of President Kennedy’s death, found by comparing each of 106 names with the Assistant Chief Batchelor list of Assignments, Commission Exhibit 5002.

W. Fritz, or Will Fritz – Captain in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau. Fritz joined the Dallas police force in 1921, and he was 27 years old in 1923.

Smith, B.B. – Deputy Chief of Police, Director, Civil Defence and Disaster Commission

Frasier, W.N. - Captain of Police

Doughty, M. – could probably be George M. Doughty, Captain of Police (not confirmed) ?

Abbott, R.E. – Forgery Bureau

The name “Curry, J.” is listed, however, this cannot be Chief Jesse Curry of fame as he joined the police department only in 1936, and he would be 10 years old 1923. Curry’s father was shortly a member of Dallas police before he became a minister for a Baptist church. Could he be the J. Curry in the list of Klansmen?

Die Ermittlungen waren von Anfang biased

Oswald and the Dallas Police Department

The only factor in Oswald’s favour was the colour of his skin. The pattern of line–ups (‘identification parades’ in UK English) described in the article matched those in which Oswald participated:
- In several cases, Oswald’s age, clothing and behaviour made him stand out from the other men; see e.g. Warren Commission Hearings, vol.2, pp.260f.
- William Scoggins, a witness to the murder of Officer J.D. Tippit, had already seen Oswald’s photograph in a newspaper before attending a line–up: see Warren Commission Hearings, vol.3, pp.334f.
- Howard Brennan too had already seen Oswald’s photograph, in this case on television, before seeing him face to face in a line–up; see ibid., pp.142–158. As it turned out, Brennan was unable to identify Oswald as the gunman he had spotted on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.
- In two cases, statements identifying Oswald were taken from witnesses before they had attended a line–up; see Warren Commission Hearings, vol.7, p.264 and Warren Commission Hearings, vol.6, p.430.

Oswald, like most defendants at that time in Dallas, would probably have had to deal not only with a hostile police force but also with a judge and jury of Texan rednecks. It is far from certain that his case would have been considered objectively.

http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-harvey-oswald-fair-trial (Archiv-Version vom 05.10.2018)

Hinzu kommen noch die Anomalien beim Tippit-Mord und die Umstände der Verhaftung und die sich wandelnde Aussage von Baker, der ursprünglich einen unbekannten Mann im 3. oder 4. Stock gesehen haben will, aber dann auf die "Oswald-beim-Colaautomaten-im-ersten-Stock"-Mär umschwenkte

@bredulino
Hast du auch mal neue Fotos? Die blaue Linie ist doch reine Fantasie, oder wurde JFK aus einem Hubschrauber erschossen?

Aniara schrieb:Hast du auch mal neue Fotos? Die blaue Linie ist doch reine Fantasie, oder wurde JFK aus einem Hubschrauber erschossen?

da fragst du den falschen:

towel_42 schrieb:Immer noch die selben Bilder mit getürkten Pfeilchen? Immer noch kein einleuchtender Beleg für eine Verschwörung? Wird das nicht langweilig? Es gibt doch diese tolle Animation die recht plausibel belegt wie sich das Ganze abgespielt hat,

Beitrag von towel_42 (Seite 1.297)

siehe

Beitrag von bredulino (Seite 1.299)

bredulino schrieb:da fragst du den falschen:

Wer die Bilder postet, muss auch dafür gerade stehen, daran hat sich immer noch nichts geändert...

Aniara schrieb:Wer die Bilder postet, muss auch dafür gerade stehen, daran hat sich immer noch nichts geändert...

Und wer das Video zur Animation, von der genau jene Bilder stammen, postet, braucht nicht dafür gerade zu stehen?

Beitrag von towel_42 (Seite 1.297)

towel_42 schrieb:Es gibt doch diese tolle Animation die recht plausibel belegt wie sich das Ganze abgespielt hat,

Animation von wem?
Original anzeigen (1,0 MB)

"Meine" Animation "mit der blauen Linie" stammt von wem?
Ich weiß es ist schwierig zu erkennen wer das ist...


http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/anim.htm

@Groucho
@McMurdo
@towel_42
@jfk-inside


eine Nachtrag zu meinem Post

Beitrag von bredulino (Seite 1.299)


Oswalds Fingerabrdrücke sollen (verspätet) am offiziellen Tatgewehr gefunden worden sein und folglich für Oswalds Täterschaft sprechen.
Jedoch gibt es folgendes zu bedenken:

The Myth of Fingerprints (1937-2004)

1.No two fingerprints are alike.
2.Fingerprint examination is a precise science, and fingerprint examiners do not make mistakes.
3.Having one’s prints found at a crime scene is a sure sign of guilt.


The Reality of Fingerprints (2004- )

1. Some fingerprints are so similar that an expert can be fooled.
2. Misidentifications are commonplace.

In 1995 Collaborative Testing Services tested 156 U.S. fingerprint examiners in collaboration with the International Association for Identification. This was the first such examination performed for the association.

The results were said to have shocked many members of the forensic science community.

The fingerprint cards to 4 suspects were provided, 40 prints in all. The examiners were then given 7 latent prints, and asked to match these latent prints to the proper suspect card and finger.

The results, as reported in a variety of sources, are as follows:

Only 44% of the examiners identified all 7 latent prints correctly.
34 (22%) made one or more misidentifications.
4% failed to properly identify any of the 7 latent prints.
Although 82% of the latent prints were identified,
48 (6%) of these identifications were misidentifications.

In sum, then, but 78% of the latent prints were properly identified.

This study led to more studies. In 1996, only 3% of the examiners made one or more misidentifications. But this marked improvement was only temporary. By 1997, the percentage of those tested making a misidentification had ballooned back up to 8%, and by 1998 it had ballooned back up to over 15%.

3. Fingerprint examiners are subject to confirmation bias.

“We took fingerprints that have previously been examined and assessed by latent print experts to make positive identification of suspects. Then we presented these same fingerprints again, to the same experts, but gave a context that suggested that they were a no-match, and hence the suspects could not be identified. Within this new context, most of the fingerprint experts made different judgements, thus contradicting their own previous identification decisions.”

“Participants were asked by one of their colleagues to examine a set of fingerprints, composed of a latent print (from the crime scene) and a print exemplar (a print obtained from a suspect). They were told that the pair of prints was the one that was erroneously matched by the FBI as the Madrid bomber, thus creating an extraneous context that the prints were a non-match.”

“Only one participant (20%) judged the prints to be a match, thus making a consistent identification regardless of the extraneous context. The other four participants (80%) changed their identification decision from the original decision they themselves had made five years earlier. Three of these four participants directly contradicted their previous decision and now judged the fingerprints as definite non-matches, whereas, the fourth participant now judged that there was insufficient information to make a definite decision (either a match or a non-match).”

(Study by Itiel Dror published in Forensic Science International, 2006)

4. The identification of fingerprints is, in practice, highly subjective.

“In the United States, the threshold for making a source identification is deliberately kept subjective, so that the examiner can take into account both the quantity and quality of comparative details. As a result, the outcome of a friction ridge analysis is not necessarily repeatable from examiner to examiner. In fact, recent research by Dror has shown that experienced examiners do not necessarily agree with even their own past conclusions when the examination is presented in a different context some time later.”

Strengthening Forensic Science in the United States,
(A 2009 report written by the National Research Council, and published by the National Academy of Science)

Mehr hier:
http://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4d-boxing-day



Was sollen wir dann von den Matches mit Oswalds abdruck halten?








Mehr hier:
http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4c%3Athefingerprintsofmyth

@behind_eyes

die Animation beweist eindeutig, dass zum Zeitpunkte des Kopfschusses die Windschutzscheibe im Weg war:

Original anzeigen (1,1 MB)

Why Use Fingerprints in a Criminal Investigation?
According to most professional criminal investigators, fingerprints obey three fundamental principles. These principles are:
A fingerprint is an individual characteristic. It is yet to be found that prints taken from different individuals possess identical ridge characteristics.

A fingerprint will remain unchanged during an individual's lifetime.

Fingerprints have general characteristic ridge patterns that permit them to be systematically classified.

https://pslc.ws/macrog/kidsmac/firehouse/arson/finger.htm


Ich lass das einfach mal so stehen...

Aniara schrieb:Ich lass das einfach mal so stehen...

dein Link ist von 2001

Copyright © 2001 Polymer Science Learning Center

https://pslc.ws/macrog/kidsmac/firehouse/

Imvestigator Notes
Polydelphia Playhouse Theater
March 6, 2001
https://pslc.ws/macrog/kidsmac/firehouse/arson/evidence.htm

Das heißt deine Quelle stammt aus dem mythischen Zeitalter

bredulino schrieb:The Myth of Fingerprints (1937-2004)

bredulino schrieb:The Reality of Fingerprints (2004- )

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4c%3Athefingerprintsofmyth

was steht zu "Oswalds" Fingerabdrücken in einem FBI-Bericht ein Tag nach dem Attentat?



http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4c%3Athefingerprintsofmyth

und

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4c%3Athefingerprintsofmyth

“Many hundreds or even thousands of cases of fabrication of fingerprint evidence have come to light in the century since fingerprints were first used by police as a means of identification. One can only guess how many fabrications have been committed in which defendants have been convicted or pled guilty. These cases of fabrication of latent fingerprint evidence will never be discovered.”

Source: http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/0/3aa455aa9ca9fe9885257...


"One of the cases that was primarily responsible for the widespread concern about integrity of the identification expert was the DePalma case, publicized in the Readers' Digest, where a police department identification officer identified a latent print which had purportedly come from the counter of a bank that was robbed as having been made by DePalma. The defendand was convicted despite a strong alibi defense. It was later extablished that the "latent" was not a latent print at all, but a xerox print of an inked impression of the defendant's print, and that the faking was done to frame the defendant. Because several FBi experts had been unable, initially, to detect the fabrication, the chairman of the professional association's Science and Practice Committee, Mr. Brunelle, was led to state 'In certain cases it may be very difficult to distinguish between authentic and fabricated prints and...laboratory techniques such as a scanning electron microscope may be necessary to verify and authentic print.' See Brunelle, Science and Practice Committee Report (1976) II Fingerprint Fabrication, Identification News, Aug. 1976, p.7"

Source: Scientific Evidence in Criminal Cases, 1986, The Foundation Press, Inc, p. 461.

"There are three common methods used by dishonest police employee to fabricate latent print evidence: 1) a lift from an inked print. 2) a mislabeled lift, 3) a staged photograph. One thing these fabricated latents frequently have in common is that they are "perfect" prints. In other words, a fabricator usually prepares a print so clear nobody could fail to see the identification. In addition to that, each of the three methods leaves tell-tale clues, to a greater or lesser degree.

Consider the lift from an inked print. Clues to this fabrication are numerous. Ink is a different shade of black than fingerprint powder. Lifted inked prints are usually the fully rolled prints, a phenomenon virtually impossible in real latent print work. Lifts from inked prints usually include fibers and microscopic fiber marks.

Next, consider mislabeled lifts. these are often the hardest of the fabrications to detect. The most reliable methods of detection is by a close inspection of background noise. Each type of surface leaves a trademark background noise, and frequently, fabricators fail to take this into account. A mislabeled latent may also reflect an orientation inconsistent with normal handling. However, a clever fabricator may be able to make a mislabeled latent match expectations of genuineness to such a high degree that it would be virtually undetectable.

The staged photograph is the third type of fabrication. These photographs are usually taken slightly out of focus in an attempt to hide details which would disclose the fabrication. Or, such a photograph may be over or under-exposed. Strange lines or shadows may be present. The photographs may also contain stray images not expected on the surface from which the latent purportedly came, or background noise may not be consistent with the surface claimed."

Source: Latent Fingerprint Fabrication by Pat Wertheim, as found on the Iowa Division of the International Association of Identification website

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4d-boxing-day