Ich sehe das anders, sorry. Ich sehe jetzt auch keine relevante Abweichung in deinen Bildern.bredulino schrieb:Der Zapruder-Film zeigt eine andere Kopfhaltung als das HSCa es darstellt
Eine kleine Abweichung kann gewaltige Konseuqnezen nach sich ziehen, denn:
Im Übrigen sind es nicht "meine" Bilder, sondern eigentlcih die von Dale MyersMcMurdo schrieb am 17.05.2018:Eine winzige nicht berücksichtigte Abweichung/Drehung/Neigung des Kopfes führt zu zig Metern Abweichung der Schützenposition.
Keine Ahnung, ist mir auch ziemlich egal, denn das HSCA hat die Autopsie-Ergebnisse bestätigt. Da ist es mir ziemlich egal, was ein gewisser Myers versucht, zu interpretieren.
was soll daran "Interpretation" sein, sein 3-D-Modell an den Filmen und Fotografien auszurichten?
Wow!
das ist falsch.
Original anzeigen (0,5 MB)
Original anzeigen (0,2 MB)
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Nein, das ist nicht falsch. :D
With the benefit of authenticated photographs, x-rays and notes from the Kennedy autopsy, a nine-doctor panel of expert pathologists reviewed and corroborated the Warren Commission's medical findings. Although the HSCA medical panel was critical of the thoroughness and methodology of the original autopsy, they unanimously concurred with the previous analysis of the late president's wounds: the cause of death being two, and only two bullet wounds, both of which entered from above and behind (the direction of Oswald in the Book Depository)Wikipedia: United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations#Forensic_Pathology_Panel
du zitierst nur den Wikipedia-Artikel zum HSCA. nicht aber den HSCA-ORIGINALtext.
Soll ich mich nochmal zitieren?
Ich sehe keine falsche Kopfhaltung...
Was soll ich auf diesem Bild erkennen? Wer soll diese graue Gestalt sein? Wie kommt ihre Position zu Stande? Was hat sie mit dem Fall JFK zutun? Mit welchen exakten Parametern wurde die Figur so positioniert?
du sieht man wieder, dass es dir nicht um eine vernünftige Diskussion geht- du hast wieder mal die Quellen nicht gelesen:
The discrepancy is due to a calibration photograph used by the HSCA to position JFK's head at Zapruder frame 312. A comparison of this photo with Z312 and the corresponding computer frame reveals apparent rotational differences.http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl3.htm
During HSCA testimony, it was noted that JFK's head had a "much more severe pitch" in Z312 than seen in the calibration photo. Thomas Canning, a NASA staff engineer, explained that the "interpretation of [JFK's] features is certainly one of the major sources of potential error," which was calculated to be about 2 degrees at Z312. (2HSCA193)
Canning, however, did not specifically address the issue of the apparent pitch differences between Z312 and the calibration photograph.
Canning's study found JFK was "turned partially away from Zapruder - approximately 25 degrees past the 90 degree, or profile, direction. His head was tilted away from Zapruder by about 15 degrees, and he appeared to be nodding forward by about 11 degrees (clockwise, as viewed by Zapruder)." (6HSCA38)
By contrast, the computer recreation found the orientation of JFK's head at Zapruder frame 312 to be turned away from Zapruder by 25.7 degrees, tilted to the left 18.1 degrees, and nodding forward 27.1 degrees - relative to Zapruder's view.
The computer calculations, which contain a 2-degree margin of error, are comparable with the HSCA findings - with the exception of the pitch (forward nodding) of JFK's head. The computer recreation shows the angle to be about 16 degrees steeper than Canning calculated. Using Canning's figures to position JFK's head in the computer recreation reveals an obvious misalignment with the Zapruder film. For this reason, the computer recreation is believed to represent a closer match to the actual orientation of JFK's head, than the position proposed by the HSCA Photographic Panel.
r. GOLDSMITH. In what way was this photographic evidence better than the photographic evidence that was available for the other shot?
Mr. CANNING. In large measure simply because we knew the time at which the President's fatal wound occurred very precisely. In addition the head provides a rigid reference system, while the rest of the body's relatively flexible structure is capable of movement and distortions.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. Now, I notice that from this chart labeled "Elements to Determining Trajectory of the JFK-JBC Bullets" the first step in determining the trajectory is to establish the wound locations.
Referring now to the trajectory that you constructed for the bullet that hit the President's head, how was the information about the President's wounds given to you?
Mr. CANNING. That was given as physical descriptions, word descriptions, including the dimensions of the inshoot and outshoot wound locations.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. By "dimensions," I take it then that you were given quantified information about the location of the wounds?
Mr. CANNING. That is true.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. Why was it necessary to quantify the locations?
Mr. CANNING. Again simply because we must establish those wound locations in space, and therefore we must have actual numbers in centimeters where the wounds were actually found to be.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. Do you know on what basis the location of the wounds was quantified?
Mr. CANNING. It was established by measurements from X-rays and from photographs made during the autopsy of the President.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. At this time I would ask that the witness be given an opportunity to examine what has been marked as JFK No. 147 and JFK No. 137.
I should correct myself. That is F-147 and F-137.
Mr. Canning, examining these two exhibits, one of which is marked "Location of Head Wounds in President Kennedy," actually they are both marked the same way. They just show it from a different perspective.
I would ask you whether the wounds are accurately represented in these exhibits in the manner that you used them in your trajectory analysis.
Mr. CANNING. Yes, the positions are accurately represented there as I used them.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. Are these diagrams drawn to scale?
Mr. CANNING. The diagram on the left is actually generated from a tracing of a premortem X-ray that had been taken of the President's head, so that one is a true scale representation of the President's skull.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. That is the one that shows the right lateral view?
Mr. CANNING. That is the right lateral view; correct.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. And what about the one on the right, sir?
Mr. CANNING. The diagram on the right is based on a tracing taken from a textbook; the actual measured positions of the wounds are indicated by the dimensions shown in the diagram.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. Which textbook was that drawing taken from?
Mr. CANNING. That was drawn from Gray's Anatomy.
Mr. GOLDSMITH. Mr. Chairman, I move for the admission of these two exhibits.
Chairman STOKES. Without objection, they may be entered into the record at this point.
[The information follows:]
JFK EXHIBIT F-147
JFK EXHIBIT F-137
Das liegt oft daran, dass deine Quellen viel zu umfänglich sind und du niemals konkret auf deine gemeinten Stelle markierst.
Warum spielst du immer nur den Begriffsstutzigen? Canning verwendet ein Dummy, um die Kopfneigung Kennedys bei Zapruder-Frame 312 nachzustellen
Ich HABE sie markiert:
Jetzt kommt plötzlich ein gewisser Cannings ins Spiel, nie von ihm gehört. Wo hat er seine Daten her? Ich halte die Position dieser Gestalt immer noch für falsch und nicht passend...
du meinst den Dummy?
Hier eine kleine Hausaufgabe: Anstelle vorschnell in den thread zu rotzen nimmst du ein, zwei tage Auszeit und liest dafür die Quellen die ich verlinkt habe, und zwar vollständig und gründlich. Ich weiß, dass du dich aus Spaß so anstelltst, aber versuch´s mal ;)
Dafür habe ich weder Zeit noch Lust, noch entspricht es den Forenregeln. Kannst du dich denn nicht mal in eigenen Worten ausdrücken?
ich habe weder Zeit noch Lust dir alles vorzukauen. Canning ist ein Nasa-Wissenschaftler, der die Daten des forensisch-pathologischen Panels genommen und sie für das fotografische Panel ausgewertet hat. Dabei kam er zu der Kopfhaltung, die von der im Zapruder-Film abweicht. Das hat dale Myers nachgewiesen, und es ist auch für jeden mit einem IQ über ersichtlich, dass die Dummy-Haltung nicht mit der wirklichen im Z-Film übereinstimmt. Deine Blind- bzw. Dummstellerei ist reines Spiel und verstößt gegen die Forenregeln.
Ich halte die Position dieser Gestalt immer noch für falsch und nicht passend...bestätigst du Myers und mich, die sie ebenfalls für halten. Myers, du und ich sind uns also einig: die Kopfhaltung des HSCA, die von Canning hat, ist falsch
Man hat das Gefühl, du lebst in einer ganz eigenen Welt irgendwie. :D
