Nun gut, der Mann ist tot, ihm ins Gesicht musst du diese Unverschämtheit also nicht mehr sagen, Dreckschmeisserei ist bei Toten ja auch einfacher.bredulino schrieb:und sich offenbar zusammen mit alten politischen Weggefährten freute.
er hat sein Leben lang von der Präsidentschaft geträumt, die Vize-Präsidentschaft hat er nur akzeptiert, weil statistsich gesehen jeder vierte Präsident während seiner Amtszeit stirbt, Johnson also sozusagen seit 1960 auf Kennedys Tod setzte. Hinzu kam noch, dass er politisch aus eigener Sicht am Ende war, da er 1964 wahrscheinlich nicht als Vize-Präsidentenkandidat antreten würde und der Skandal um Bobby Baker ihn belasten könnte.Balthasar70 schrieb:Nun gut, der Mann ist tot, ihm ins Gesicht musst du diese Unverschämtheit also nicht mehr sagen, Dreckschmeisserei ist bei Toten ja auch einfacher.
Müssen wir uns jetzt Sorgen um Trump machen? :D
:DAniara schrieb:Müssen wir uns jetzt Sorgen um Trump machen? :D
No, here, according to Valenti's contemporaneous notes of a Johnson background discussion with two newsmen, was Johnson himself claiming that he was waiting for the body--the BODY--because he felt it imperative it be returned to Washington. Right away. With him.http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/19632-johnson-and-the-body/?tab=comments#comment-262025
Well, this is more than curious. Why did Johnson think it imperative he gain control of Kennedy's body? Did he fear the Dallas coroner might be part of a conspiracy? Did he feel that leaving the body in Dallas would make him look weak, and divide the nation's attention? Or did he, for some unknown reason, want the body removed from civilian control as fast as possible?
If there's an innocent explanation for this body-snatching, for that matter, why would he later lie about it, and make out that his sole interest was Mrs. Kennedy's welfare?
Yes, sad to say, something was indeed rotten in Denmark, er... Texas... Texas State law forbade the removal of a murder victim from the state before an autopsy could be conducted. And yet Johnson encouraged the Presidential detail of the Secret Service--now under his command--to deliberately break this law...
It is a matter of historical record, then, that among Lyndon Johnson's first acts as President, one of them was to have his subordinates break the law and abscond with the corpse of his predecessor. Now, curiously, it is also a matter of historical record that, within moments of Johnson's flying off with the body, the Secret Service flew President Kennedy's blood-stained limousine out of Texas. This meant that both the best evidence (the body) and half of the crime scene (the limousine) were never shown to those with jurisdiction for the crime (the Dallas Coroner and the Dallas Police Department), but were instead illicitly removed from Texas and analyzed in secret by men under Lyndon Johnson's direct control.
From an FBI report dated 11/27/63: “At approximately 10:30 p.m. today a telephone call was received from a female individual who refused to furnish her identity. She advised she is a member of the local theatre guild and that on numerous occasions she has attended functions or speeches where Mr. Sorrels, Head of the Secret Service, Dallas, has spoken. She maintained that Mr. Sorrels should be removed from his position as he was INCOMPETENT AND DID NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO PROTECT THE PRESIDENT. SHE STATED HE WAS DEFINITELY ANTI-GOVERNMENT, AGAINST THE KENNEDY ADMINISTRATION, AND SHE FELT HIS POSITION WAS AGAINST THE SECURITY OF NOT ONLY THE PRESIDENT BUT THE UNITED STATES. During the time this individual furnished the information set out above an effort was made to determine her name and address however she declined."[Signed] Inspector Tom Kelley Secret Service 9:20 a.m. 12/2/63” [emphasis added]2) Agent Elmer W. Moore
Moore told graduate student James Gouchenaur that he "felt remorse for the way he (Moore) had badgered Dr. Perry into changing his testimony to the effect that there was not, after all, an entrance wound in the front of the president's neck." Furthermore, Gouchenaur quoted Moore as saying that Kennedy was a traitor for giving things away to the Russians; that it was a shame people had to die, but maybe it was a good thing; that the Secret Service personnel had to go along with the way the assassination was being investigated: "I did everything I was told, we all did everything we were told, or we'd get our heads cut off."3) Martin Martineau
"when Inspector Kelley of the Secret Service came to Chicago in 1961, I discussed with him the fact that during a conversation between SAIC Maurice Martineau and two other agents who were discussing Kennedy's push for racial balance and equal justice in America, Mr. Martineau blurted out angrily, 'The bastard should be killed.' This coming from an agent was dangerous. The prevailing attitude of the Caucasian agents, the majority of whom were southern born, was that Kennedy was moving too fast on Civil Rights and in the Chicago office of the Secret Service, I heard the term 'nigger lover' applied to President Kennedy by more than one or two agents." Mr. Bolden added that "all of (this) information...was discussed with Inspector Kelley, John Hanley (SAIC), Harry Geghlein, and John [sic?] Burke (Assistant SAIC) in the Chicago office to no avail."4) Harvey Henderson
Both in his letters and in his interviews with the author, Mr. Bolden expressed much interest and suspicion in Harvey Henderson, his “boss” during his time on the White House Detail: "While in New York on a protective assignment, Harvey Henderson countermand a direct order from the President. This act occurred in September or October 1963 [Mr. Bolden may be mistaken : the time period may have been mid-November 1963, a mere week or so before Dallas]. The President subsequently had Henderson removed from the detail and this act by the President was very unpopular with Jerry Behn, Emory Roberts, and others on the detail."https://www.allmystery.de/fcgi/?m=redirect&r=http%3A%2F%2Fvincepalamara.blogspot.de%2F2010%2F01%2Fdark-side-of-kennedy-detail.html
Mr. Bolden elaborated during a telephone interview with the author: "Do you know what happened to Harvey Henderson? I heard that he had been relieved of his Detail by President Kennedy himself...Harvey had made some threats like, 'We'll get you'...I understand that he told the President "I'll get you, or something to that effect...(it was) no secret that Kennedy wanted him removed from the detail... Harvey was a quick-tempered guy who couldn't take the heat... Where is Harvey Henderson at? I think that you would do well if you could find out where Harvey Henderson was on November 22-can you track him down?" In reference to the elicit Secret Service credentials present in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63, Mr. Bolden said, in reference to Harvey Henderson, "that's the first thing that crossed my mind - he would have the nerve, the guts, the anger, the craziness, the instability...I'm not saying he was in Dallas, but I'm saying that...it would be something to look at."
This group was led by Frank Wisner and members included Richard Bissell, Desmond FitzGerald, Stewart Alsop, Joseph Alsop, Tracy Barnes, Thomas Braden, Philip Graham, David Bruce, Clark Clifford, Eugene Rostow, Chip Bohlen, Cord Meyer, James Angleton, William Averill Harriman, John McCloy, John Sherman Cooper, James Reston, Allen W. Dulles and Paul Nitze.http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/5872-richard-bartolomew-rambler-station-wagon/?do=findComment&comment=56883
It was this group that first came up with the idea of the CIA (many of them had served together in the OSS in Europe). Wisner and Graham also established Operation Mockingbird in the late 1940s. Other interesting points is that two members, Phil Graham and Joseph Alsop, persuaded JFK to accept LBJ as his running-mate in 1960. They also pushed very hard for Douglas Dillon to become Secretary of the Treasury. The person who would be responsible for looking at the oil depletion allowance. Something that Dillon had helped maintain when he served under Dwight Eisenhower (Dillon was a passionate Republican who had been Nixon’s main fundraiser in 1960).
THE MEETING AT JUPITER ISLAND, FLORIDA - 11/28/63http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/19859-rfks-children-interviewed-by-charlie-rose-speak-out-on-jfk-assassination/?tab=comments#comment-265051
Normally, Bobby and Ethel were with their family on Thanksgiving. But not in November, 1963. Instead, both Bobby and Ethel flew to Florida, and went to Jupiter Island, an off-shore enclave for certain wealthy individuals, and visited for hours with Kennedy's Secretary of the Treasury, Douglas Dillon, who had a home there.
As students of this case know, Dillon--as Treasury Secretary--was the (nominal) boss of Secret Service Chief James Rowley. Also noteworthy: Dillon (accompanied by his wife, Phyllis) was one of the half dozen or so Cabinet members who, on November 22, found themselves airborne (at the invitation of Sec State Dean Rusk) on a plane to Tokyo, for an "economic conference." If there was anyone who was a Kennedy loyalist--and who would know of any inside information concerning the Secret Service, and Dallas--it would be Douglas Dillon. Upon his return, he would no doubt have demanded, and been given, answers. And I have little doubt that Robert Kennedy--accompanied by his wife--went to see Dillon personally to have that kind of private conversation. "What do you know?. . what have you been told about what happened in Dallas?" Neither Robert Kennedy or Dillon have ever made any public statement about what was discussed, nor do I know of any written record. However, in 1965, Robert Kennedy made an appearance before the American Jewish Committee ("AJC") in New York, and I have a transcript of that appearance. In a nutshell, he spoke about the requirements for public service and singled out the White House Detail of the Secret Service as a group where an individual's political beliefs were relevant, and had to be looked at carefully, when considering employment, because of the sensitive nature of their duties. Of course, this may be just "common sense," but in the aftermath of Dallas, and in light of the unusual meeting of RFK, Ethel, and Dillon at Jupiter Island, on November 28, 1963, I have wondered.
NOV 29, 1960: President Eisenhower meets with key aides from the State, Treasury, and Defense departments, CIA, and the White House. He expresses his unhappiness about the general situation: "Are we being sufficiently imaginative and bold, subject to not letting our hand appear; and ...are we doing the things we are doing, effectively?" State Department Acting Secretary Dillon voices the department's concern that the operation is no longer secret but is known all over Latin America and has been discussed in U.N. circles. President Eisenhower states he thinks, "we should be prepared to take more chances and be more aggressive." (Memorandum of Meeting with the President, Tuesday, November 29, 1960, 12/5/60)http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4069-c-douglas-dillon-and-the-assassination-of-jfk/?do=findComment&comment=30375
DEC 2, 1960: Acting Secretary of State Dillon informs President Eisenhower that the 5412 Group has decided that a senior official in the State Department and a senior officer in CIA should work full time to better organize the government's "total program with respect to Cuba." Whiting Whitauer and Tracy Barnes are suggested to fill the roles and the 5412 Group (Messrs. Dulles, Gray, Douglas, and Merchant) recommends that it "intensify its general supervision of the covert operation." (Douglas Dillon, Memorandum for the President, Subject: Cuba, December 2, 1960)
DEC 6, 1960: President Eisenhower meets with President - elect Kennedy to discuss the anti-Castro Cuban operation currently being planned. (Gleijeses, p.26)
DEC 7, 1960: President Eisenhower responds to Doug Dillon's December 2, memo. He grants approval for reorganization of the Cuba program, but wants to clarify that; “Mr. Willauer should have a position directly subordinate to the Secretary of State for so long as Cuba remains a critical problem in our foreign relations. There should be no doubt as to the authority of the Special Assistant in the State department (Willauer) to coordinate [deleted] activities.” (President Eisenhower, Memorandum for the Secretary of State, December 7, 1960).
Was ist daran "banal"?
die folgendne Punkte sind also NICHT banal:
Wikipedia: Kleine-Welt-Phänomen
und es ist auch nicht "banal", dass es nicht wenige Agenten Antipathien, wenn nicht Hass gegen Kennedy hatten? Verstehe ich dich richtig?
- dass der Secret Service die Initiative beim Transport der Leiche hatte inklusive Bestimmungsort der Autopsie?
- dass es folglich nicht Jackie war, die Bethesda als Autopsieort bestimmte?
As the great novelist and observer of history Gore Vidal once noted, those in power “don’t have to conspire, because they all think alike. The president of General Motors and the president of Chase Manhattan Bank really are not going to disagree much on anything, nor would the editor of the New York Times disagree with them. They all tend to think quite alike, otherwise they would not be in those jobs.” Vidal later said of himself, “I’m not a conspiracy theorist - I’m a conspiracy analyst.”
lol
This included Frank Wisner, Philip Graham, David Bruce, Tom Braden, Stewart Alsop and Walt Rostow. Over the next few years others like George Kennan, Dean Acheson, Richard Bissell, Joseph Alsop, Eugene Rostow, Chip Bohlen, Desmond FitzGerald, Tracy Barnes, Cord Meyer, James Angleton, William Averill Harriman, John McCloy, Felix Frankfurter, John Sherman Cooper, James Reston, Allen W. Dulles and Paul Nitze
When John F. Kennedy was assassinated, Lyndon B. Johnson appointed three members of his seven man Warren Commission from the Georgetown Set: Allen W. Dulles, John J. McCloy and John S. Cooper.http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKgeorgetown.htm
:D wo habe ich "rhetorische fragen" gestellt?
Was meisnt mit "Belegen"? Es ging mir Dillon darum:
Es ging mir darum, dass, wenn jemand wie Dillon erfuhr, dass Verdächtiges in seiner Behörde ablief anhand der Meldungen über das Verhalten einzelner Secret-Service-Agenten aus Gründen wie Loyalität zu peers, einem Interesse, seine Behörde und seine einflussreichen Freunde zu schützen und vielleiht auch aus Sympathie für die Verschwörer, wegzuschauen und die Dinge unter den Teppich zu kehren
Komisch wie es Dir schwerfällt bei einem Punkt zu bleiben.
Professor Newman reviewed how CIA reports of Oswald’s trips to the Cuban and Soviet embassies was a key factor in getting President Lyndon B. Johnson and the Warren Commission members to go with the Oswald as lone assassin line.http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKnewmanJ.htm
Newman described how the reports in essence created a “World War III” virus, such that after the assassination, no one wanted to look too closely at who Oswald served, lest it touch off a nuclear war with the Soviets or the Cubans.
Newman traced how false information that helped promote this WWIII virus got into Oswald’s file and concluded that the person who controlled the file at those points was Ann Egerter, one of the six or so hand-picked operatives working in James Jesus Angleton’s CI/SIG unit – the Special Investigations Group within the larger 200-man Counterintelligence group at CIA.
Newman also pointed out how many in the Agency feared Angleton, feared for their lives if they crossed him, and suggested Egerter would not have manipulated Oswald’s file on her own, but only under express instructions from Angleton himself.
Das würde ich auch begrüßen, wenn der Kollege @bredulino seine ganzen Texte hier mal besser in Zusammenhang zu dem Mord JFK rücken würde. Dann könnte man vielleicht auch mehr damit anfangen.
welcher John?
ich habe es doch schon gesagt! SOGAR ZWEI MAL!
