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MJ~Leben u. Sterben~u das Geschehen danach!

23.746 Beiträge ▪ Schlüsselwörter: Mord, Michael Jackson, Verurteilung ▪ Abonnieren: Feed E-Mail

MJ~Leben u. Sterben~u das Geschehen danach!

30.09.2011 um 21:48
@FaIrIeFlOwEr
@CosmicQueen
@FunnyKerstin


Also Mädels :D :D ......ich glaub das kann doch stimmen ......Alvarez sagte er und Murray legten MJ auf den Boden ...... wie lange dauerte der Anruf ??? ....... und in wieviel min. war der KW vor Ort ?

Kann es nicht sein das der Senneff oder wie der heißt gerade das Zimmer betrat als sie dabei waren MJ runter zu legen ....??


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30.09.2011 um 21:49
Zitat von FaIrIeFlOwErFaIrIeFlOwEr schrieb:der Alvarez wird ein wenig mit dem ganzen Ablauf durcheinander kommen ... aber auch verständlich .
Der hatte doch den Sani am Ohr, und hat diese Anweisung bekommen. Da wird er doch noch wissen müssen, ob er in diesem Moment MJ zusammen mit Murray auf den Boden hat, oder nicht.

@EC145
Mir kommt der Sani auf jeden Fall sehr kompetent rüber, von daher dürfte da nichts schief gehen...


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30.09.2011 um 21:52
Zitat von ghost777ghost777 schrieb:Kann es nicht sein das der Senneff oder wie der heißt gerade das Zimmer betrat als sie dabei waren MJ runter zu legen ....??
Hmm, das dachte ich auch erst, aber das haut mit der Timeline nicht ganz hin...wann trafen die Sanis ein und wann hat Alvarez mit einem Sani am Telefon gesprochen?


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30.09.2011 um 21:52
@ghost777
@CosmicQueen
so wie ich das aus den medien habe. spricht alles gegen Murray. die verteidigung wird es schwr haben die sanis zu knaken deren aussagen ich als sehr glaubhaft erachte. nocmals Murray hat zu viele fehler begangen. und eine orale einnahme von propofol ist völlig harmlos also wirkungslos.


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30.09.2011 um 21:57
@CosmicQueen
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Der hatte doch den Sani am Ohr, und hat diese Anweisung bekommen. Da wird er doch noch wissen müssen, ob er in diesem Moment MJ zusammen mit Murray auf den Boden hat, oder nicht.
da bin ich abgeschweift ... das bezog sich auf den gesamten Ablauf ... weil nach der Zeitleiste hatte Alvarez vielleicht nicht alles so schaffen können ... sorry :)

* Senneff said 911 call came in at 12:22 pm. He arrived at MJ's house 4 minutes later.

also Alvarez hatte um 12:20 h 911 angerufen, der Anruf dauerte schon eine Zeit ... dann ging die Meldung an die Sanis und die waren 4 Minuten, also im 12:26 h vor Ort ...

aber während des 911 Calls haben sie MJ doch aus dem Bett gehoben ...


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30.09.2011 um 21:59
Zitat von FaIrIeFlOwErFaIrIeFlOwEr schrieb:also Alvarez hatte um 12:20 h 911 angerufen, der Anruf dauerte schon eine Zeit ... dann ging die Meldung an die Sanis und die waren 4 Minuten, also im 12:26 h vor Ort ...
OK, dann kann es ja hinkommen, das just in diesem Moment die Sanis eintrafen, als Alvarez zusammen mit Murray, MJ vom Bett auf den Boden gelegt hat....


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30.09.2011 um 22:01
@FaIrIeFlOwEr
Da müsste Alvarez den Sani aber noch am Ohr gehabt haben, also haut doch nicht hin???


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30.09.2011 um 22:03
@CosmicQueen
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Da müsste Alvarez den Sani aber noch am Ohr gehabt haben, also haut doch nicht hin???
also zwischen 12:20 und 12:22 h wurde der 911 Call getätigt ... die brauchen doch keine 4 Minuten um MJ aus dem Bett zu heben ...

und während dieser Zeit, haben sie MJ auf den Boden gelegt ...


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30.09.2011 um 22:05
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Da müsste Alvarez den Sani aber noch am Ohr gehabt haben, also haut doch nicht hin???
Doch haut hin Alvarez sprach doch mit der Leitzentrale ............da waren die Sani doch schon unterwegs ......Senneff sagte er sah MJ auf dem Bett die Beine hingen schon raus .....er traf so denke ich ein als die beiden MJ aus dem Bett holten ..... ????


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30.09.2011 um 22:05
Zitat von FaIrIeFlOwErFaIrIeFlOwEr schrieb:die brauchen doch keine 4 Minuten um MJ aus dem Bett zu heben ...
Eben, dann hätte man ja auch gehört, bzw. Alvarez hätte ausgesagt das die Sanis jetzt da sind. Also so kann es auch nicht gewesen sein. Irgendwas stimmt nicht mit Alvarez Aussage...


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30.09.2011 um 22:09
Zitat von ghost777ghost777 schrieb:Doch haut hin Alvarez sprach doch mit der Leitzentrale .......
Ja schon, aber während dem Gespräch (und das ging ja länger) war nichts davon zu hören, dass die Sanis jetzt eingetroffen sind. Und Alvarez hat ja ausgesagt, dass er just in dem Moment, als er von der Zentrale diese Anweisung bekam, zusammen mit Murray, MJ auf den Boden gelegt hätte.


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30.09.2011 um 22:15
@FaIrIeFlOwEr @ghost777
Außerdem endete das Gespräch ja mit, "bitte, schnell...wir brauchen einen Rettungswagen" und der von der Leitzentrale sagte, "wir sind unterwegs und in ein paar Minuten da".


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30.09.2011 um 22:22
@CosmicQueen
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Außerdem endete das Gespräch ja mit, "bitte, schnell...wir brauchen einen Rettungswagen" und der von der Leitzentrale sagte, "wir sind unterwegs und in ein paar Minuten da".
haben dann Murray und Alvarez erst mal schnell die Medikamente zusammen gesammelt ????


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30.09.2011 um 22:26
@FaIrIeFlOwEr
Auf jeden Fall kann es nicht stimmen, dass Alvarez während den 911 call, MJ auf den Boden gelegt hat. Da vertut er sich aus irgendeinen Grund. Alvarez ist mehrmals von der Verteidigung angesprochen worden, ob er sich sicher sei, ob seine Angabe so stimmen können.


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30.09.2011 um 22:29
@CosmicQueen

da bin ich aber gespannt, ob Alvarez nochmals in den Zeugenstand gerufen wird ... :)


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30.09.2011 um 22:29
Paramedic saw no signs of life in Michael Jackson

Los Angeles (CNN) -- A Los Angeles County paramedic who responded to the delayed 911 call from Michael Jackson's home the day he died testified Friday in Dr. Conrad Murray's involuntary manslaughter trial that Jackson was "flatlined" and appeared dead when rescuers arrived.

Paramedic Richard Senneff said that at no time during the 42 minutes he was with Jackson did he see any signs of life in him.

Senneff testified that Murray told responders he had only given Jackson a dose of lorazepam to help him sleep and that he was treating him for dehydration and exhaustion, with no mention of the surgical anesthetic propofol.

Prosecutors contend one of the acts that makes Murray criminally responsible for Jackson's death was that he misled the paramedics by not telling them he had given his patient propofol before he stopped breathing.

The coroner ruled that Jackson's June 25, 2009, death was the result of "acute propofol intoxication" in combination with sedatives.

When Senneff asked Murray "how long the patient was down," the doctor responded "It just happened right when I called you," Senneff said. Earlier testimony indicated the emergency call was not placed for at least 15 minutes after Murray realized Jackson was not breathing.

"It meant to me that this was a patient we had a good chance of saving," since the paramedics arrived just five minutes after the 911 call, Senneff said.

The paramedic, however, said it "did not add up to me" because of Jackson appeared dead.

"When I first moved the patient, his skin was very cool to the touch, his eyes were open, they were dry and his pupils were dilated," Senneff said. "When I hooked up the EKG machine, it was flatlined."

At one point, Murray told paramedics he felt a pulse in Jackson's upper right leg, but their heart monitor showed no rhythm, Senneff said.

A doctor communicating by radio with the paramedics recommended at 12:57 p.m., a half hour after they arrived, that they cease efforts to revive Jackson and declare him dead, according to a recording of the radio traffic played in court.

Murray then took over responsibility for the effort and continued resuscitation efforts, Senneff said.

The defense appeared to make one important point in their cross-examination of Senneff. The paramedic said when he first walked into bedroom he saw Murray and a security guard moving Jackson off the bed and onto the floor.

That contradicts Thursday's testimony by Alberto Alvarez, who worked for Jackson, who said he helped move Jackson from the bed while he was on the 911 phone call at least six minutes before the paramedics arrived.

The timing is important because it could call into question testimony by Alvarez about when Murray asked for his help in collecting drug vials from around the bed.

Senneff's partner, paramedic Martin Blount, also was likely to be called as a witness Friday, the fourth day of Murray's trial.

Prosecutors argue Murray's medical care as Jackson's personal physician was so reckless that he should be held criminally responsible for his death.

Deputy District Attorney David Walgren said Murray abandoned "all principles of medical care" when he used a makeshift intravenous drip to administer propofol to put Jackson to sleep.

Murray acknowledged in a police interview that he gave Jackson propofol almost every night for two months as the singer prepared for comeback concerts that were set to start in London in July 2009.

The device Murray used to monitor Jackson's pulse and blood oxygen level while he used propofol to put him to sleep was the focus of testimony by the first witness Friday.

An executive with the company that made the Nonin 9500 pulse oxymeter said it was "designed for spot checking of vital signs" and was "specifically labeled against continuous monitoring."

The $275 device did not have an audio alarm, requiring someone to constantly keep an eye on the tiny screen, Robert Johnson testified. Murray would have been better equipped with his company's table top version that would cost $1,200, Johnson said.

Prosecutors argue Murray's lack of professional monitoring equipment was reckless and is one reason the doctor should be held criminally responsible for Jackson's death.

One of Murray's former patients testified Friday that Murray saved his life after a heart attack just months before Jackson's death.

Although Robert Russell was called by the prosecution, his testimony possibly bolstered the defense contention that Murray is a caring and capable cardiologist.

"The advice he gave me saved my life," Russell said, describing how Murray not only put several stents in the arteries near his heart, but he also took time to help him change his unhealthy habits.

"He gave me advice on exercise, on eating, just how to live my life, doing away with pressure and stress that I believe I thrived on in the business world," said Russell, a sales manager for an electrical distribution firm.

The prosecution called Russell as an example of how Murray left his patients without a doctor when he went to be Michael Jackson's personal physician in April 2009.

"I was dismayed, flabbergasted, left out," Russell said. "I did feel abandoned."

His testified, however, that he was still able to contact Murray over the phone for advice and his clinic staff supported his therapy.

Russell's new cardiologist recently checked the Murray's work on his heart and "was very excited how my stents have held up," Russell testified.

In previous testimony, Jackson's chef Thursday defended her decision not to alert a security guard that Murray needed help in Jackson's bedroom after the doctor frantically asked her to do so.

It wasn't until about 10 minutes later that a guard in a trailer a few feet away from chef Kai Chase's kitchen was ordered upstairs to the bedroom where Murray was trying to revive Jackson, according to trial testimony.

Murray "was very nervous, and frantic and he was shouting," when he ran down a staircase near the kitchen where Chase was preparing Jackson's lunch, Chase testified Thursday afternoon.

"Get help, get security, get Prince," Chase said Murray screamed.

The chef's response was to walk into the nearby dining room where Jackson's oldest son, Prince, was playing with his sister and brother, she said.

"I said 'Hurry, Dr. Murray needs you. There may be something wrong with your father," Chase said she told Prince Jackson.

She then returned to the kitchen to continue lunch preparation, she said.

"He's asking for help, he's asking for security," defense lawyer Michael Flanagan said during cross-examination. "Did you think that a 12-year-old child was going to be able to assist this doctor with a problem with Michael?"

"I did what I was told and I went to get Prince," Chase answered.

Murray's lawyers are laying the groundwork to argue that Murray should not be blamed for the delay in calling for help because he relied on the chef to alert security, who then could call for an ambulance.

The prosecution, meanwhile, contends that a delay in calling 911 for an ambulance was Murray's fault and one of the negligent acts that make him criminally responsible for Jackson's death.

Alvarez, who served as Jackson's logistics director, showed the court how he saw an empty vial of propofol inside a torn IV bag that was hanging on a stand.

During questioning by the defense, however, Alvarez indicated it was another IV bag with a clear saline solution, not propofol, that was attached by a tube to Jackson's leg.

Alvarez testified that when he first rushed into the bedroom where Murray was trying to revive Jackson, the doctor asked him to help put drug vials into bags.

"He reached over and grabbed a handful of vials, and he asked me to put them in a bag," Alvarez testified.

Prosecutors contend that Murray was trying to gather up evidence of his criminal responsibility for Jackson's death, even before asking that someone call for an ambulance.

Under cross-examination, defense lawyer Ed Chernoff led Alvarez slowly through his steps during a half-minute period, apparently trying to show that his memory is wrong about the sequence of events.

When Chernoff asked him whether all of the events he described could have happened in the 30 seconds, Alvarez answered, "I'm very efficient, sir."

Chernoff also hinted that the defense would argue that Alvarez altered his account of events two months later after conferring with other witnesses.

Alvarez described how Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, walked toward their father, who was lying still on a bed with his eyes and mouth open, facing toward them.

"Paris screamed out 'Daddy!'" and she started crying, Alvarez said.

"Dr. Conrad Murray said, 'Don't let them see their dad like this,' " Alvarez said. "I turned to the children, and I told them, 'Kids, don't worry, everything's going to be OK.'"

After helping Murray place the vials in bags, the doctor asked him to call 911. The recording of the call was played in court Thursday.

Alvarez said he's been offered up to $500,000 for interviews about Jackson's death. He's turned them all down, despite financial problems and the lack of employment, he said.

Jackson's personal assistant and his security chief gave their own emotional details about the chaos in the Jackson home and at the hospital with their testimony Wednesday.

Michael Amir Williams, who was Jackson's personal assistant, described a frantic series of phone calls that started at 12:13 p.m. the day the pop icon died.

"Call me right away, please; call me right away," Murray said in a voice message to Williams, which prosecutors played in court Wednesday.

"Get here right away; Mr. Jackson had a bad reaction," Williams said Murray told him when he called him back.

Williams then ordered Alvarez to rush to the upstairs bedroom where Murray was working to resuscitate Jackson.

Security chief Faheem Muhammad, who followed Alvarez upstairs, described seeing Jackson on a bed with his eyes open and his mouth "slightly opened" as Murray tried to revive him.

"Did he appear to be dead?" Walgren asked.

"Yes," Muhammad replied.

Muhammad gave details about how Jackson's two oldest children watched in shock.

"Paris was on the ground, balled up, crying. And Prince, he was standing there, he just had a real shocked, you know, slowly crying, type of shocked look on his face," he said.

Chernoff contended that Jackson, desperate for sleep, caused his own death by taking a handful of sedatives and self-administering propofol while the doctor was out of the room.

One defense strategy is to point the finger at another doctor and Jackson as having a large role in his death, while arguing that Murray was blind to what they were doing.

They contend that dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein got the singer addicted to Demerol during those frequent visits to his Beverly Hills office in the weeks before his death, something Murray did not know about.

His withdrawal from that Demerol addiction was what kept Jackson awake despite Murray's efforts to put him to sleep with sedatives the morning he died, the defense contends, arguing that Klein is at least partly responsible for Jackson's death because of the Demerol.

Chernoff asked Williams, Jackson's personal assistant, if he went to Klein's office with Jackson.

"At a certain point, it was very regular," Williams said.

Chernoff then asked Williams whether he'd ever heard Jackson talk slowly with slurred speech, as he did on an audio recording played in court Tuesday.

"Not that extreme, but I have heard him talk slow before," Williams said.

"And when he left Dr. Klein's office, have you observed him sometimes to talk slow?" Chernoff asked.

Sometimes, Williams replied, "he would talk slow like that. I never heard it that extreme, but I can definitely say he has come out, and he's a little slower."

Chief security guard Muhammad, who often drove Jackson, testified that "There were times he would go almost every day" to Klein's office. Jackson often appeared intoxicated when he left, Muhammad testified.

Jackson once told Muhammad that his frequent trips to the dermatologist were for treatment for a skin disease.

"My doctors tell me that I have to go, so I go," Muhammad said Jackson told him.

At the start of court proceedings Wednesday, Paul Gongaware, an executive with the company promoting Jackson's comeback concerts, said he noticed that Jackson had "a little bit of a slower speech pattern, just a slight slur in the speech" after a visit with Klein.

Medical records show that Klein gave Jackson numerous shots of Demerol in the weeks before his death, Chernoff told jurors Tuesday.

"Dr. Klein did not do anything that was medically inappropriate," Klein's lawyer, Garo Ghazarian, told HLN's "Issues with Jane Velez-Mitchell" Wednesday.

The last time Klein gave Jackson drugs was more than three days before his death, Ghazarian said.

Jackson's inability to sleep the morning he died was "one of the insidious effects" of Demerol addiction withdrawal, Chernoff said. Since Murray did not know about the Demerol, he could not understand why Jackson was unable to fall asleep that morning, Chernoff said.

Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor previously ruled that while the jury can see some of the records of Klein's treatment of Jackson, the doctor would not testify. Demerol was not found in Jackson's body during the autopsy, which makes Klein's testimony irrelevant, Pastor ruled.

The trial began Tuesday with prosecutors playing a stunning audio recording of an apparently drugged Jackson slurring his words weeks before his death. Prosecutors also showed jurors a photo of Jackson's corpse on a hospital gurney.

If convicted of involuntary manslaughter, Murray could spend four years in a California prison and lose his medical license.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/30/justice/california-conrad-murray-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


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30.09.2011 um 22:30
@FaIrIeFlOwEr
Er hat sogar genau beschrieben, wie er es gemacht hat, weil die Verteidigung es doch ziemlich komisch fand, wie er gleichzeitig telefonieren kann und dabei eine Person von A nach B heben kann. Alvarez meine, "er hätte den Hörer zwischen Kopf und Schulter geklemmt und somit hätte er beide Hände frei gehabt.


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30.09.2011 um 22:31
@FaIrIeFlOwEr
@CosmicQueen


Hmmm KJ und JJ sind gerade weg...... war wohl doch zu viel ................


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30.09.2011 um 22:34
kj,jj ??


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30.09.2011 um 22:34
@CosmicQueen
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Auf jeden Fall kann es nicht stimmen, dass Alvarez während den 911 call, MJ auf den Boden gelegt hat. Da vertut er sich aus irgendeinen Grund. Alvarez ist mehrmals von der Verteidigung angesprochen worden, ob er sich sicher sei, ob seine Angabe so stimmen können.
darum hat doch der Ed Chernoff diese Timeline von 12:19:28 bis 12:20 h aufgeschrieben ...
und immer wieder gefragt, ob es möglich sein kann, alles was angegeben wurde, in dieser Zeit zu schaffen ...


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