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MJ~Leben u. Sterben~u das Geschehen danach!

23.746 Beiträge ▪ Schlüsselwörter: Mord, Michael Jackson, Verurteilung ▪ Abonnieren: Feed E-Mail

MJ~Leben u. Sterben~u das Geschehen danach!

27.10.2011 um 21:07
@CosmicQueen
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Zumindest hat Klein Aktenaufzeichnungen gemacht, was man von Murray nicht behaupten kann
ja, Murray hatte gar keine Aufzeichnungen über die Behandlung von MJ ... und auch, dass er Demerol injizierte, war ja nicht unbekannt ... Klein wurde ja vom Medical Board auch überprüft ... und es gab nichts was man ihm hätte vorwerfen können ...
die Verabreichung hing ja mit der gesamten Behandlung zusammen ... also sind diese doch nicht selbstständig zu betrachten ... :)


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27.10.2011 um 21:13
Zitat von FaIrIeFlOwErFaIrIeFlOwEr schrieb:die Verabreichung hing ja mit der gesamten Behandlung zusammen ... also sind diese doch nicht selbstständig zu betrachten ... :)
Richtig. Daraus hat aber unser Abhängigkeits-Experte, eine Demerol-Abhängigkeit gefolgert...


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27.10.2011 um 21:17
People vs. Dr. Conrad Murray
Addiction Expert:
MJ Was Dependent On Demerol

Addiction Expert -- Dr. Robert Waldman Testifies

Updated 10/27/11 at 8:48 AM


1027-mj-conrad-witness-01

Addiction expert Dr. Robert Waldman -- the defense's penultimate witness -- said Michael Jackson became physically dependent on the pain killer Demerol right before he died.

Waldman said Jackson received "unusually large" amounts of the highly-addictive drug during frequent visits to his dermatologist between March and June, 2009.

Waldman said one of the symptoms of withdrawal from the drug is insomnia... a condition MJ was known to suffer from.

Defense attorney Ed Chernoff went over medical records from MJ's dermatologist -- Dr. Arnold Klein -- which showed each time Jackson went in for a botox and anti-perspiration treatments -- relatively painless procedures -- he got a boatload of Demerol.

MJ started his "treatments" in March 2009 ... getting 200 mg of Demerol per visit. By May, he was receiving 300 mg.

During an extremely tense cross examination, Waldman admitted he couldn't say for sure whether MJ was addicted to Demerol ... but he would diagnose him as "dependent."

http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/27/people-vs-dr-conrad-murray-defense-propofol-expert-testifiesmanslaughter-michael-jackson-mj-propofol/#.Tqmtk3LB2nA


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27.10.2011 um 21:22
@CosmicQueen
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Daraus hat aber unser Abhängigkeits-Experte, eine Demerol-Abhängigkeit gefolgert...
hoffentlich hat die Jury auch richtig verstanden, was die Verteidigung erreichen wollte ... viele Antworten vom Waldman wurden ja aus dem Protokoll wieder gestrichen ...

das Problem ist aber immer, dass man diese falsche Beantwortung nicht unbedingt aus/in den Köpfen streichen kann ... :D :D :D


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27.10.2011 um 21:28
aus dem MJ@ckson Forum ...
Eintrag # 91 von pearl
vielen Dank :D

http://www.mjackson.net/forum/showthread.php?15286-27.10.11-19.-Tag-Dr.-Waldmann-Dr.-White-DISKUSSION/page10


Waldman meinte, es habe möglicherweise Besuche von Michael bei Klein gegeben, über die keine Aufzeichnungen gemacht wurden.
Frage Chernoff: Wäre es sinnvoll, die Krankenschwestern oder med. Personal von Klein vorzuladen?
Einspruch - stattgegeben


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27.10.2011 um 21:32
ebenfalls aus dem MJ@ckson Forum
Eintrag # 103 von Sleepless
vielen Dank

http://www.mjackson.net/forum/showthread.php?15286-27.10.11-19.-Tag-Dr.-Waldmann-Dr.-White-DISKUSSION/page11


Das Diagramm wurde nicht nur aufgrund der Krankenakte erstellt, sondern auch basierend auf einer von der Verteidigung erstellten Zusammenfassung.
Die hat Dr. Waldman aber nicht dabei.

(Ich mach dann auch mal eine handschriftliche Zusammenfassung und reiche sie weiter, mal schauen was dann rauskommt....)


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27.10.2011 um 21:36
@FaIrIeFlOwEr
Der Experte meinte ja, dass es wahrscheinlich seie, von einer Demerol "Abhängigkeit" Schlafprobleme zu bekommen. Aber wie sieht es mit Propofol aus, bekommt man davon vielleicht auch Schlafprobleme? Weil der Patient hat ja nie wirklich einen echten Schlaf, und MJ hat schließlich über 2 Monate TÄGLICH Propofol bekommen....


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27.10.2011 um 21:36
aus dem MJ@ckson Forum
Eintrag # 113 von Sleepless
vielen Dank

http://www.mjackson.net/forum/showthread.php?15286-27.10.11-19.-Tag-Dr.-Waldmann-Dr.-White-DISKUSSION/page12


Okeee, jetzt ist Dr. Waldman auch sauer auf die Verteidigung.
Wohl weil Walgren ihn so gemangelt hat (und so einige "Lücken" aufgezeigt hat)

Waldman sagt: Die Kopie der Akte die er von der Verteidigung erhalten hat, war sehr, sehr schwer zu lesen und nicht annähernd so gut wie die im Gericht.
Seine Kopie wurde bestimmt 4 oder 5 Mal kopiert.


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27.10.2011 um 21:42
@CosmicQueen
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Der Experte meinte ja, dass es wahrscheinlich seie, von einer Demerol "Abhängigkeit" Schlafprobleme zu bekommen. Aber wie sieht es mit Propofol aus, bekommt man davon vielleicht auch Schlafprobleme? Weil der Patient hat ja nie wirklich einen echten Schlaf, und MJ hat schließlich über 2 Monate TÄGLICH Propofol bekommen....
soweit ich mich erinnern kann, wird man NICHT physisch abhängig von der ständigen Propofol
Verabreichung ... aber es besteht die Gefahr, dass sich eine psychische Abhängigkeit entwickelt ...

wobei man sich fragen muß, wer bekommt denn ständig Propofol injiziert ????


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27.10.2011 um 22:02
Expert says Jackson likely addicted to pain medication

Updated 25m ago


usatodayvideo27102011
VIDEO im Bericht


LOS ANGELES (AP) – An addiction expert testifying for the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death told jurors Thursday he believes medical records showed the singer developed an addiction to a powerful pain medicine in the months before his death.

Dr. Robert Waldman told jurors that Jackson was receiving "above-average doses" of the painkiller Demerol in the months before his death.

"I believe there is evidence that he was dependent on Demerol, possibly," Waldman said. The witness said he also thinks Jackson had an addiction to opioids by May 2009, the month before his death.

Waldman said a symptom of Demerol withdrawal is insomnia. Jackson complained that he couldn't sleep as he prepared for a series of comeback concerts.

Attorneys for Dr. Conrad Murray have suggested Jackson was undergoing withdrawal from Demerol before his death. None of the drug was found in the singer's system when he died.

Defense attorneys contend Jackson gave himself a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol, which they say he was taking as a sleep aid.

Authorities found propofol throughout Jackson's body during an autopsy, and they contend Murray gave the singer a fatal dose of the drug while using it to help him sleep.

Jackson received the Demerol shots from his longtime dermatologist, Dr. Arnold Klein, who has not been accused of wrongdoing and will not be called as a witness during the trial.

Waldman said he had not treated a case of Demerol addiction in recent memory.

Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's June 2009 death.

The Houston-based cardiologist's attorneys plan to call a propofol expert later Thursday.

Murray's attorneys have yet to show evidence of how their self-administration theory would have been possible. Several prosecution experts have said the self-administration defense was improbable, and a key expert said he ruled it out completely, arguing the more likely scenario was that Murray gave Jackson a much higher dose than he has acknowledged.

The scientific testimony of Waldman and Dr. Paul White comes a day after jurors heard from five of Murray's one-time patients, who described the cardiologist as a caring physician who performed procedures for free and spent hours getting to know them. When Ruby Mosley described Murray's work at a clinic he founded in a poor neighborhood in Houston in memory of his father, tears welled up in the eyes of the normally stoic doctor-turned-defendant.

White and Waldman do not necessarily have to convince jurors that Jackson gave himself the fatal dose, but merely provide them with enough reasonable doubt about the prosecution's case against Murray.

Prosecutors have portrayed Murray, 58, as a reckless physician who repeatedly broke the rules by giving Jackson propofol as a sleep aid. But jurors heard a different description of the doctor Wednesday.

Several of the character witnesses called described Murray as the best doctor they had ever seen and highlighted his skills at repairing their hearts with stents and other procedures.

"I'm alive today because of that man," said Andrew Guest of Las Vegas, who looked at Murray. "That man sitting there is the best doctor I've ever seen."

Another former patient, Gerry Causey, stopped to shake Murray's hand in the courtroom and said the physician was his best friend.

A prosecutor noted none of them were treated for sleep issues, although Causey and others said they didn't believe the allegations against Murray.

Defense attorneys have told Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor they expect their case to conclude Thursday. Pastor has said if that happens, closing arguments would occur next week.
Copyright 2011 The Associated Press.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-27/michael-jackson-doctor-trial/50960518/1


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27.10.2011 um 22:12
Michael Jackson was hooked on painkillers, jury told, given by the same dermatologist who gave him Botox injections to the groin

By David Gardner
Last updated at 8:07 PM on 27th October 2011


Michael Jackson was hooked on painkiller drugs in the months leading up to his death, jurors heard today.

The singer was given regular treatments with wrinkle filler drugs like Botox and Restylane by a Beverly Hills dermatologist.

At the same time he was injected with 'very high doses' of Demerol pain medication, addiction expert Dr Robert Waldman told Los Angeles Superior Court.

dailymail27102011BOriginal anzeigen (0,2 MB)

In one three day period between April 21 to April 23 in 2009, the singer was treated with 775 milligrams of the drug even though Dr Waldman testified there was no reason Jackson needed Demerol while having Botox or other skin treatments.

article-0-0E62225B00000578-956 306x508
Jackson visited dermatologist Arnold Klein 18 times from April - June 2009, receiving Botox and Restalyne injections as well as Demerol

'I believe there is evidence that Michael Jackson was dependent on Demerol and was possibly addicted,' said Dr Waldman.

'My opinion is that with what is known about his public behaviour and this course of treatment, Michael Jackson was probably addicted to opioids.

Six weeks of very frequent high doses would lead to dependency in any of us,' he added.

The defence expert was basing his testimony on medical records provided to the court by Jackson's dermatologist Dr Arnold Klein, who has not given evidence at the trial.

Jurors saw records detailing 18 visits Jackson - using the alias of Omar Arnold - made to Dr Klein for treatment between April and June in 2009.

Dr Klein also treated Jackson to reduce 'excessive perspiration' by injecting Botox into his groin and armpits.

The last visit was just three days before Jackson died from a deadly dose of the hospital anaesthetic Propofol on June 25, 2009.

Jackson's private doctor Conrad Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Murray, 58, has admitted administering the powerful drug to help the star get to sleep.

'Insomnia is a very common complaint' in patients withdrawing from drugs like Demerol, Dr Waldman told the court.

The doses of Demerol administered to Jackson increased through April and May to 300 milligrams a visit and dropped back down to 100 milligrams a time by the middle of June.

Jurors heard from Jackson's security staff that the singer appeared 'tipsy' when he left Dr Klein's office and was drowsy and unfocused during rehearsals for his London comeback.

dailymail27102011BBOriginal anzeigen (0,2 MB)

Dr Waldman, who works with addicts in Los Angeles, said he has treated celebrities and professional sportsmen in the past.

He said withdrawals from Demerol also caused sweating, an increased heart rate, bone and muscle pain, chills, nausea, anxiety and severe restlessness.

The addiction specialist is the second last witness for the defence.

The case continues.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2054370/Michael-Jackson-hooked-painkillers-jury-hears-Botox-injected-groin.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


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27.10.2011 um 22:14
Jackson 'addicted to pain medicine'

(UKPA) – 36 minutes ago


Medical records showed that Michael Jackson developed an addiction to a powerful pain medicine in the months before his death, an expert testifying for the doctor charged over the singer's death has told a jury in Los Angeles.

Dr Robert Waldman said the pop star was receiving "above-average doses" of the painkiller Demerol.

"I believe there is evidence that he was dependent on Demerol, possibly," he said, adding that he believed Jackson had an addiction to opioids by May 2009, the month before his death.

Jackson's personal doctor, Dr Conrad Murray, has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter. His lawyers argue that Jackson gave himself a fatal dose of the anaesthetic propofol, which they say he was taking as a sleep aid.

Dr Waldman said a symptom of Demerol withdrawal is insomnia. Jackson complained that he could not sleep as he prepared for a series of comeback concerts.

Murray's lawyers have suggested that the singer was undergoing withdrawal from Demerol before his death. None of the drug was found in his system when he died, but authorities found propofol throughout Jackson's body during a post-mortem examination.

Jackson received Demerol shots from his long-time dermatologist, Dr Arnold Klein, who has not been accused of wrongdoing and will not be called as a witness.

Murray's lawyers have yet to show evidence of how their theory that Jackson gave himself a fatal dose would have been possible. A key expert said he ruled it out completely, saying the more likely scenario was that Murray gave Jackson a much higher dose than he has acknowledged.

Prosecutors have portrayed Murray as a reckless physician who repeatedly broke the rules by giving Jackson propofol as a sleep aid. But jurors heard a different description of the doctor from several character witnesses on Wednesday.

One of them, Andrew Guest, said: "I'm alive today because of that man. That man sitting there is the best doctor I've ever seen."

Copyright © 2011 The Press Association.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jNrUF0tyI3whxWJdFx4U3FB6I6aA?docId=N0318481319741362297A


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27.10.2011 um 22:19
Conrad Murray trial: Caving in to a patient's demands?

October 27, 2011 | 1:03 pm


6a00d8341c630a53ef0162fbf60887970d-640wi

A defense expert at the trial of Michael Jackson's personal physician acknowledged Thursday that he himself would never cave in to a patient's demand for an unsafe medical treatment, the allegation prosecutors have made against the doctor.

Dr. Robert Waldman, a specialist in addiction medicine, testified under questioning by a defense attorney that the singer was "probably" addicted to the Demerol provided by his longtime dermatologist.

But on cross-examination, a prosecutor switched the focus to the medical treatment provided by Dr. Conrad Murray, the defendant who had hired Waldman as an expert witness.

FULL COVERAGE: The Conrad Murray trial
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/michael-jackson-trial/

"If a patient asks you to administer a dangerous drug, a drug that could be harmful ... would you refuse to administer that drug to the patient?" Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked.

"Absolutely," Waldman replied.
Murray's defense called the expert to bolster its theory that painkiller withdrawal caused the singer's chronic insomnia. Jackson, the defense has suggested, was so concerned about getting sleep before crucial rehearsals that he injected himself with a lethal amount of a surgical anesthetic when Murray was out of the room. Prosecutors maintain Jackson stopped breathing after Murray set up an intravenous drip of propofol, a powerful drug intended for use only in hospitals and surgical suites, and then failed to monitor his vital signs.

Walgren noted that Jackson often went long stretches between visits to dermatologist Arnold Klein -- including a full week shortly before his death. If Demerol addicts could suffer withdrawal after just eight hours, how had Jackson gone many days, the prosecutor asked.

Addicts "often have multiple sources. If they can't get their main med, they will look elsewhere to get it," Waldman said, adding that Klein's records were "inadequate."

The prosecutor seized on the answer. Have you reviewed the defendant's records for Jackson, he asked the expert. As the jury has heard repeatedly, Murray kept no records in the months before Jackson died.

The judge directed the witness not to answer. "Assumes facts not in evidence," Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor said.

Under further questioning by a lawyer for Murray, Waldman hinted at the frustration the defense claims the doctor encountered when he tried to get Jackson to seek help. Waldman said the best course of treatment for an addict is an inpatient treatment center, but if the person refuses "we don't really have much choice. Hands are tied."

Murray, 58, faces a maximum of four years in prison if convicted of involuntary manslaughter. The defense's main scientific expert, Dr. Paul White, is to take the stand Thursday afternoon. Jurors are expected to begin deliberations next week.


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/conrad-murray-expert-michael-jackson.html


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27.10.2011 um 22:25
Zitat von FaIrIeFlOwErFaIrIeFlOwEr schrieb:wobei man sich fragen muß, wer bekommt denn ständig Propofol injiziert ????
Sagte doch schon der Propofol-Experte: "Man bewege sich da im Never-Neverland" :D Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, dass MJ gerade wegen dem täglich Propofol nicht mehr richtig einschlafen konnte..


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27.10.2011 um 22:27
October 27, 2011

Doc: MJ was dependant on painkillers

Doktor: MJ war abhängig nach Schmerzmitteln

Posted: 01:36 PM ET


mj-medical-records-blog

Addiction medicine specialist Dr. Robert Waldman said Dr. Arnold Klein's records from treating Michael Jackson show the King of Pop was receiving "large" doses of the powerful painkiller Demerol for seemingly no reason.

Defense Attorney Ed Chernoff displayed the dermatologist's records for treating "Omar Arnold," one of Jackson's many aliases. The records showed Dr. Klein injected the singer with Botox and Restylane, drugs used for smoothing wrinkles. Dr. Klein also treated Jackson to reduce "excessive perspiration" by injecting Botox into his groin and armpits.

The records also showed each time Jackson received these anti-wrinkle or anti-perspiration medications he would also receive doses of Demerol.

Dr. Waldman testified that, based on his research, the treatments Dr. Klein gave Jackson were not painful procedures and the standard of care would not require painkillers.

Dr. Klein's records began in March of 2009, just a few of months before Jackson's death. At first, Jackson would receive 200mg of Demerol during his visits to Dr. Klein. By the beginning of May 2009, Jackson could receive up to 300mg from Dr. Klein.

Dr. Waldman said that according to these records, he believes Jackson was physically dependent and may have even been addicted to Demerol by May 04, 2009.

By June 2009, Dr. Waldman says Jackson could have been exhibiting withdrawal symptoms that may have caused him to not be able to sleep.

During cross examination, Dr. Waldman said he would not diagnosis Jackson as addicted to Demerol based solely on Dr. Klien's records, but he would diagnosis the singer as being dependent on the painkiller.

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/27/doc-mj-was-dependant-on-painkillers/


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27.10.2011 um 22:47
@CosmicQueen
Zitat von CosmicQueenCosmicQueen schrieb:Sagte doch schon der Propofol-Experte: "Man bewege sich da im Never-Neverland" :D Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, dass MJ gerade wegen dem täglich Propofol nicht mehr richtig einschlafen konnte..
ja, denn da hätte man eben nur MJ, der Propofol wegen seiner Schlaflosigkeit bekommen hatte ...

ich denke, dass MJ schon allein wegen des steigenden Drucks, der bald beginnenden Tournee, keinen richtigen Schlaf mehr finden konnte ... hinzu kam bestimmt auch seine ganze körperliche Verfassung ... und da dieses Propofol ja eine psychische Abhängigkeit hervorrufen könnte, ist doch anzunehmen, dass sich diese aber auch auf MJs Körper auswirkte und er dieses Mittel einfach brauchte ...

ausgehend aber wäre die Psyche ... richtige physische Entzugserscheinungen, wird es vielleicht gar nicht geben ...

es heißt Körper und Seele müssen im Einklang sein, damit sich ein Mensch wohlfühlt und er gesund bleibt ... das schaffen wir Menschen leider nicht immer ... :(


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27.10.2011 um 23:00
Zitat von FaIrIeFlOwErFaIrIeFlOwEr schrieb:ich denke, dass MJ schon allein wegen des steigenden Drucks, der bald beginnenden Tournee, keinen richtigen Schlaf mehr finden konnte ...
Ich denke auch das MJ einfach keine Ruhe mehr fand, wenn er solche Projekte vor sich hatte. Hat nicht irgendjemand mal ausgesagt, dass es für MJ nicht leicht war, wieder "runter zu kommen" , wenn er Tourte oder Probte?

In meinen Augen war MJ nicht im dem Sinne Anhängig von dem Medikament, sondern eher davon abhängig, irgendwie wieder runter zu kommen, und da halfen ihm halt mitlerweile nur sehr starke Mittel.

Wenn A.Klein MJ ab März bis anfang Mai, höhere Dosen von Demerol gegeben hat, und Murray kam ja dann auch noch ins Spiel, mit Propofol, dann müsste ihm doch klar gewesen sein, dass so eine Dauerbehandlung mit Propofol eher einem Experiment gleich kommt und da sollte man wohl auf alles gefasst sein, auch auf extreme Komplikationen !!


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27.10.2011 um 23:04
October 27, 2011

Witness: Don't put words in my mouth

Zeuge: Legen Sie mir keine Worte in den Mund

Posted: 04:28 PM ET


dailymail27102011B2

VIDEO im Bericht


Looks like one of the defense's final witnesses wasn't ready to play nice with prosecutor David Walgren. During an intense cross examination Thursday, Dr. Robert Waldman accused Walgren of putting words in his mouth. The judge stepped in and told Dr. Waldman that that's how cross examinations usually work.

Walgren asked the judge to strike several of Dr. Waldman's responses because he was being "unresponsive." When Walgren asked him how many hours each week he did dialysis work, it took Dr. Waldman about a minute and a half of back and forth before he could explain.

"What you're asking me is extremely non-specific and I'm telling you honestly I don't measure," Dr. Waldman said.

It seems like Walgren was trying to imply that because Dr. Waldman also practices dialysis, he may not be most knowledgeable expert for this case. Dr. Waldman testified earlier that Michael Jackson was dependent on the painkiller Demerol, given to him by his dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein.

Walgren was also able to attack the addiction specialist's credibility by getting him to admit that he is not board certified in addiction medicine.


http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/27/witness-dont-put-words-in-my-mouth/


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27.10.2011 um 23:05
es geht weiter ...

jetzt kommt Dr. White ...

nur der Ton macht noch nicht richtig mit ... :D :D


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27.10.2011 um 23:07
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Court has resumed. Dr. Paul White has taken the witness stand #conradmurraytrial
vor 1 Minute



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