Religions nowadays! Senseful or Senseless? - Boon or Bane?

An argument I made on reddit, that i would like to share with you:

(on the question of the beginning of everything)

"<a href:"Wikipedia: Watchmaker analogy#David Hume">David Hume reasoned that if a well-ordered natural world requires a special designer, then God's mind (being so well ordered) also requires a special designer. And then this designer would likewise need a designer, and so on ad infinitum. We could respond by resting content with an inexplicably self-ordered divine mind but then why not rest content with an inexplicably self-ordered natural world?"

I've always had a problem with Dawkins or Krauss saying that science doesn't have an answer to the question of the beginning but that we will get there eventually. In my opinion, the beginning of everything is something that will always be unexplainable to us. This seems to be a key part of evidence for the decision whether to believe or not for many people but Hume very clearly pointed out that having no logical answer for the beginning of everything is not evidence for a Creator. So why do so many atheist stick to the "we will get there" argument rather than pointing out that it doesn't matter in the debate?

The better answer should be: "Science can't explain the beginning of everything yet, but neither does religion." Here is an analogy: Imagine you leave an empty room and lock the doors. After a while you come back, open the door and you find a completed puzzle game on the floor. The creationist argument is like responding to the question where the puzzle came from with "a bearded man put all the pieces together." It doesn't answer the question how the puzzle (or the bearded man) got into the room in the first place.

The thing is I know so many people among my family and friends that are deists ("There has to be someone who started it right?") because of the misconception that somehow a god is something that doesn't need a beginning. Why do they think that? Theists will argue that god is "a priori" but that's just fancy way of saying he is magical and doesn't need logic. Why is a magically created god more convincing to them than just a magically created universe from nothing? Why can't the universe itself be a priori?

ireland is somehow dominated by the roman catholic church, the education sector and the health sector are most likely affected...every school, every hospital, etc are named after some saint.

now, try to find a decent job, for example, if you are an atheist like me ;)

@allmyboy

allmyboy schrieb am 28.11.2013:hat if a well-ordered natural world requires a special designer, then God's mind (being so well ordered) also requires a special designer. And then this designer would likewise need a designer, and so on ad infinitum.

Well, thinking like this, seems right to our human logical reasoning, but it's nevertheless too shortsighted.

We're not able to imagine what was before the big bang, even scientist have no idea, ok they have ideas, assumptions, they speculate about it, but in the end, they have to believe something. And that's exactely what the deists do. No chance to proove anything.

allmyboy schrieb am 28.11.2013:The creationist argument is like responding to the question where the puzzle came from with "a bearded man put all the pieces together." It doesn't answer the question how the puzzle (or the bearded man) got into the room in the first place.

These creationists have found an easy solution for our failure in imagine the unimaginable. The bible. It's comfortable for such people to do so. The answer to every question can be found in this book. But they aren't always as birdbrained as many people think. :)


I watched several videos, produced by Walter Veith, former prof in south africa and he has quiet amazing answers to some questions. He is also a former evolutionist, even a former atheist. I don't agree with him. Not at all! But, he also isn't wrong all the time and I would like to consider as many reasonable points of views as possible. Necessary, to find and form my very own religion.

Mr. Veit speaks a very good German also. Enjoy if you want... ;)

Walter Veith Kreation vs Evolution - Die Erde im Licht von Zeit und Raum NEU Teil 1

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allmyboy schrieb am 28.11.2013:Why do they think that? Theists will argue that god is "a priori" but that's just fancy way of saying he is magical and doesn't need logic.

The final question is: What is God? An old bearded man, sitting on a cloud, surrounded by angels and so on? Or is God just a word, made by humans to explain what can't be explained?

what is god? to quote nietzsche: 'god is dead'...and to further quote grumpy cat: 'good'

@azerate

Considering

azerate schrieb am 29.11.2013:if you are an atheist like me ;)

and

azerate schrieb:what is god? to quote nietzsche: 'god is dead'.

I come to the conclusion you want to express your unbelief in god by using this very popular quote.
But therefore you have to quote the whole text, instead of 3 words, to get the originally intended meaning. ;)

So, Nietzsche described a mad man coming to the marketplace in order to search god. He is exclaiming: "Where is god?, Where is god?..", on and on...

In the story written by Nietzsche, this man is surrounded by atheists, who are laughing about the mad man and then one of them said the famous words to the mad man: "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Yet his shadow still looms. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"

The funny thing is, that Nietzsche cartooned himself, when writing about the mad man. Nietzsche didn't like the church or religious people but he nevertheless was searching for god. Thus it appears, that this quote isn't as good as an atheistic argument as people commonly presume. ;)

Nietzsche neither was an atheist in the strict sense, nor was he religious. He was a believer! Think twice...

maybe, nietzsche just wanted to unfold all the lies behind religion, and the dangers that lurk within?

it's not the fact, that someone believes in a higher entity, but the fact, that organised religions are well able to brainwash people, by using their belief for their own good, financially, fo example, or to stir up hatred against others :(

I practice any religion but I'm a humanist.

Humanist do not believe in God, but in a moral code inhehrent in human nature .
For humanists there is neither an afterlife nor any divine revelation, only an interest in this life and the welfare of others.

I don't believe traditional religions are very senseful. I believe in Karma - do good things and good things will come back to you. Don't harm others, simply be a good person. Karma is my religion.

My opinion on this basically is like the Dalai Lama's ☺

olaf81 schrieb am 13.03.2016:I don't believe traditional religions are very senseful. I believe in Karma - do good things and good things will come back to you. Don't harm others, simply be a good person. Karma is my religion.

CountDracula schrieb am 22.05.2016:My opinion on this basically is like the Dalai Lama's

you guy´s should check out alan watts :)

Alan Wilson Watts (6 January 1915 – 16 November 1973) was a British writer and speaker known for interpreting and popularising Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism for a Western audience. Born in Chislehurst, England, he moved to the United States in 1938 and began Zen training in New York. He received a master's degree in theology from Seabury-Western Theological Seminary and became an Episcopal priest in 1945. He left the ministry in 1950 and moved to California, where he joined the faculty of the American Academy of Asian Studies.

Wikipedia: Alan Watts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOs4dsHXCk0 (Video: Alan Watts The Art of Buddha and Zen)

I beleive that religion can be both good and bad, some people find great meaning and purpose in their life through religion and it brings them hapiness. It can be bad however when it is used to exploit and instill fear. There are endless examples of how religion has been corrupt in the past and still is.